A Facebook Exchange With A Gun Grabber

I just had a great Facebook exchange with a gun grabber. As he did not result to profanity, I thought I would share here. After the exchange, he had no reply to offer, and just vanished.

He and I are "friends" on Facebook thanks to our mutual love of photography. When he found out about me starting this gun blog, he had plenty to say about how stupid we Americans are. You see, he is from the great country of Australia.

Now there is a country that has some practical experience with gun control. So I was eager to go back and forth with him. We have vollied back forth for a few weeks now. But this latest exchange was a great one so I thought I would share.

He started off with sending me this Youtube clip of a AU comedian that he claimed had valid points. I will post it here because he was indeed funny. If not completely wrong about most everything.



This is how the exchange then begin to take place:

HIM: Something funny to watch. Disregard the bad language. He makes some darn good points!

ME: Problem 1 - Gun Control advocates call any killing of 2 or more a massacre. You just had one with a guy and a shotgun. And you have had MANY since 1996 where more than one person was killed. Since we are discussing using Gun Control talking points, he is already lying. Or at the very least, he is failing to outline the definition of what a massacre is in his mind. Does he think it's 2 like the Mother's website does? Or 5? Or 10? When does murder turn to massacre?

Problem 2 - Your violent crime launched through the roof after removing your guns in 1997. Your crime rate skyrocketed. It took a massive doubling of your police forces to turn the tide. Since then it has come back down, but your violent crime and murder rate is now back to where it was prior to 1996. Exactly the same. You are just dying by more baseball bats and knives than you were before. In other words, they changed tools. These are facts.

Problem 3 - He stated the only argument we have is the fact that we just like guns. And it's the only argument we have. Well he just stated that lies and bull crap arguments were something he could not tolerate. But it's OK for him to use them because he's a comedian? The hard facts and numbers are all on our side. You guys that want to take them away blow everything out proportion and fail to compare them to anything else that kill people, because if you did, it would show how flawed your argument is. Plus even when you pass stringent gun control laws, nothing changes for crime and mortality rates. And we know that to be truth by looking at your country, the UK, Cuba, Russia, Germany, France, and every other country that has tried it. The crime rate NEVER changes after gun control laws are passed. Ever. Unless they go up. Which they do with frequency. You do nothing to change violence and save lives. Ever. 

At that point I stopped watching the video because I have to make a school run. But I will pick it back up when I get back. Until then, here is my answer with hard facts and common sense that cannot be refuted.



HIM (while I was dropping kids off at school):  I didn't expect you to agree with it James. You need to come over to a safe country like mine and actually experience what it feels like to not need a weapon to feel safe. See I have lived through both scenarios and know from REAL experience and not some varying stats that change depending on the source.

What makes you any better than all the people who you discredit for their stats? And I'm pretty sure if one of those 200+ people killed by a rifle where your wife or children then You may not be laughing at the amount of people who have died.

ME: What an absolute ridiculous thing to say. No matter how my wife died, I would be horribly crushed inside. And I would never laugh, nor have I ever laughed, at death in general. Ever. But to blame it on the mere existence of a tool, to the point that you blow it so far out of proportion is stupid.

I would not blame the butter knife if she tripped and fell on it. I would not blame the car if she ran off the road. You are freaking out over the hammer when the screwdriver has a reputation for killing more people because the hammer looks scary. To do so defies common sense, and embraces pure irrational thought derived from emotion. 

Try using common sense and put things into perspective. Try it just once. It is a cool thing. Here, let me show you how it works.

Knives, baseball bats, and people's own 2 hands kill more people than guns over here. At the exact same ratio as your country. Actually less. Guns are involved in 8% of all violent crime here, versus 13% in your country. But your gun laws are insanely restrictive. And no matter how many times I try to use your own country for an example, you never have anything to say about it.

Your country tried it. It changed nothing. Nadda. Zero. Your country was one of the safest to begin with. Prior to 1996 it was safer than Switzerland. But you over reacted and did what you did because one mentally ill man when nuts. Guess what - it changed nothing. 

How come you have no argument for that? How do you ignore that despite stringent gun control laws that make it near impossible to even have a shotgun legally, that your violent crime rates are exactly the same now nearly 20 years later, as they were prior to the ban? How do you explain how a shotgun - illegally obtained - was used just a few months ago in a coffee shop terrorist attack in your own country? You can't explain it because it does not work no matter how you try to spin the numbers.

When you start pitching a hissy fit over having bed rails installed on all beds in order to save lives because they kill way more people than assault rifles, then you will have credibility with me.

When you lobby to have skateboards removed from the public because 100,000 kids went to emergency rooms from skateboard injuries versus the 6,000 from a firearms - in a country with 310,000,000 million people and just as many guns, no less - then you will have credibility with me.

When you start lobbying to have backyard swimming pools require safety covers and fencing with child proof locks because they kill 500% more kids each year than do firearm accidents, then I will listen.

Until you start approaching things using common sense, perspective, and truth, instead of just blind emotion, then I won't respond to your silly arguing points, because they are based on emotion and not backed by fact.

But, you see, that is all the gun control people have. Emotion. Because the facts don't add up.

You ignore facts, and the most incredible is the amount of people SAVED by defensive gun use in this country. The most recent estimate is around 170,000 times per year. Despite those numbers, I have provided 2 personal experiences where a gun saved my life, or at the very least, serious bodily harm. Would you have denied me that defense?

Go ahead. You stated that I might change my mind if my wife or a loved one had been murdered. So what is your argument for the fact that the opposite actually happened to me? That I still get to live my life with my wife and family thanks to a 9mm? On 2 occasions in my lifetime, no less. In fact I won't listen to anything else until you address THAT argument. 

Oh and the fact that your crime rate has never changed. It's like you are ignoring it. Answer that one. Why has oppressive gun control laws in your country not changed one freaking thing?

Common sense, perspective, and truth. You start arguing using that, and you will have something. It's like a three legged milking stool. Without, you have nothing.

The Truth About Assault Rifles

Bicycles Are On A Rampage Across America!

We here at Guns and Wammo like to illustrate absurdity with absurdity. We hear how awful guns are and how everything is worse with them. But truth be told, it is a bunch of people with an agenda. They want to disarm America. So they blow everything out of proportion and make things worse than they really are. They give you numbers pointing out how dangerous guns are. But they never compare those numbers to other things that seem less menacing. If they did, they would expose the absurdity.

Did you know that more kids drown in their pool in the backyard than die from a firearm in their home? By a gigantic amount. 500% more kids die from a swimming pool at home than do because of a firearm in their home. Did you know that there are only 4.5 million homes that have pools but there are 100 million homes with firearms? Does that not illustrate the absurdity?

So when I say: Pools kill 50 times more children than guns do, that is a great example of illustrating absurdity with absurdity.

Did you know that of all accidents at home, falling down kills 43 times more people than a gun in their home does?

So... Gravity kills 43 times more people than guns do. Absurdity with absurdity. In fact, when you look at worldwide numbers, and include every single instance of somebody dying by a bullet, you are not even close to the ravaging that takes place by evil Mr. Gravity. Including even the death tolls of war. Gravity kills 230% more people than guns do. Each year. Gravity, of all things.

But we focus on guns because there is a political agenda to disarm citizens.

That leads me to an interesting factoid that shows just how absurd people can be. There is roughly the same amount of gun owners in America as there are bicycle owners. Did you know that? If we were really concerned with keeping people safe, we would require safety courses on bicycle use, require licensing and background checks as well. Why? Because even though the number of gun owners and bicycle owners are roughly the same, over 50,000 kids each year go to the hospital due to a bicycle injury. But gun accidents account for less than 7,000. Where is the concern about the public well being for bicycle injuries like we see for guns?

It is this absurd illustration that shows you that there is political agenda around disarming citizens. It has nothing to do with actually keeping people safe.

Here is another factoid for you. Over 100,000 people go to the emergency room each year due to skateboards. That is 900% more often than the evil firearm. How come there are no Mother advocacy groups trying to get skateboards off of the street? But we sure do have them to get rid of guns.

Look I understand that most people just want people to be safe and live a long life. But when you have a politician yell about something being evil. When an advocacy group says something is evil. When anybody tries to pull on your heart strings and use emotion to sway your opinion, you better start doing some fact checking. On your own. Not reading a website that quotes you numbers trying to sway your opinion. Look all of those numbers up yourself, and then compare them to more normal things in life.

For instance, alcohol related deaths are about 75,000 each year. Gun related deaths - all of them combined - is 30,000. Something supposedly so evil and dangerous is half as likely to kill you as something so normal as alcohol.

Remember: Always do the absurdity check on your own, before you ever believe a politician about anything.

I will leave you with a quote from George Washington. Our first President and hero of the war for independence. During a speech in front of the first American Congress, he said the following:

"Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence... From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day. Events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to ensure peace, security, and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable. Every corner of this land knows firearms, and more than 99/100 percent of them by their silence indicate they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference - They deserve a place of honor with all that's good. When firearms go, all goes. We need them every hour." - George Washington, Address to the Second Session, First United States Congress.

Gravity is a homicidal Maniac!

Welcome to our series on debunking the most popular gun myths. In it, we aim to totally destroy all of the myths that you are most familiar with. You will be able to use these to cram the truth down a gun grabber's throat.

Because sometimes the truth hurts, we don't care if they choke on it.

#8 - OMG!!! Gun accidents kill thousands each year!

Yet another incredible lie quoted by politicians and spread by the internet. Guess what, gang. Not everything you read on the internet is true. Here is a statistic straight from the National Safety Council. Only 400 people out of a population of 310 million, are accidentally killed by a firearm while at home. Firearms are only the eighth most likely thing to kill you at home. A much-much-much more dangerous thing is gravity. It is the second most dangerous thing to kill you. Falling down kills 17,500 people each year at home. That is 43 times more people than accidentally die by guns.

I know what you are thinking. I said dies at home. So what about all of those people that go hunting? I bet those numbers are through the roof.

WRONG! The same National Safety Council said that the number one safest relaxing activity is Camping. The second one is shooting pool. Billiards. The third safest relaxing past time is - wait for it - HUNTING! In fact you are 3 times more likely to sustain an injury playing golf than going hunting.

Here is the most amazing statistic of all: Gun sales and gun ownership is growing at an almost immeasurable rate year over year. Like we can't even track how fast it's growing. Yet accidental gun fatalities, homicides involving guns, and all violent crimes using guns are going down. They are moving in opposite direction. In fact, any negative stat that you can quote about guns, have been steadily decreasing BY DOUBLE DIGIT PERCENTAGE POINTS, while gun sales and ownership are going through the roof.

It's almost as if the more guns we buy, the better everything gets. I know. I know. That sounds silly. Silly or not, accidents and crime involving guns are going down, while firearm ownership is going up. WAY up!

....Weird...

Here is another little factoid for you. Worldwide, the number of firearm related deaths is roughly 250,000. That includes murder and all violent crime, war and regional conflicts, and all accidents and suicide. Absolutely all gun deaths. By the same token, gravity - falling down - kills over 550,000 people worldwide. That gravity is a real pain in the keester.

Put things in perspective people...

To see the next myth destroyed click here. 

Guns accidents kill so many kids each year

Welcome to our series on debunking the most popular gun myths. In it, we aim to totally destroy all of the myths that you are most familiar with. You will be able to use these to cram the truth down a gun grabber's throat.

Because sometimes the truth hurts, we don't care if they choke on it.

#7 - OMG!!! Gun accidents kill soooo many kids each year!

Where did this complete lie come from??? Here are the official numbers of accidental deaths from The Centers For Disease Control for 2013.

Accidental death from firearms ages 1-4: 27
Accidental death from firearms ages 5-9: 15
Accidental death from firearms ages 10-14: 24
Accidental death from firearms ages 15-24: 107
Total = 173
Total accidental death for all sources = 9,000
Reality = 1.9% of accidental child death is gun related

QUITE BLOWING THINGS OUT OF PROPORTION!!!

Here are some realistic headlines that sound stupid when phrased the same way...

OMG!!! Less than one half of one percent of all child injuries involve firearms!!! Source = Centers for Disease Control

OMG!!! Swimming pools kill 50 times more kids than guns do. Source = Centers for Disease Control.

Maybe we should institute a backyard pool ban...

To see the next myth destroyed click here. 

Take away guns and you stop suicides

Welcome to our series on debunking the most popular gun myths. In it, we aim to totally destroy all of the myths that you are most familiar with. You will be able to use these to cram the truth down a gun grabber's throat.

Because sometimes the truth hurts, we don't care if they choke on it.

#5 - Take away guns and you stop suicides.

Ummm.... Not really. The Center For Disease Control has hard numbers on suicide. On average 40,000 people each year chose to end their life. Out of that 10,000 choose suffocation. Meaning they hung themselves. Over 6,000 chose to poison themselves. 20,000 chose to put a gun to their head. And you believe that if we take away guns, those 20,000 will somehow change their minds?

You don't really believe that, do you?

Let me ask you a question. Don't you think that if guns vanished overnight, most all of them would find another way? Betcha' they would. How do I know that? Because half of that number hang themselves each year already. A slower and more painful way to die. Half of that number poison themselves. The rest find other means.

Plus we can look at the UK for an example. Their suicide rate is virtually identical to ours. But they have very oppressive gun control laws compared to the US. And guess what, most of them are all hanging themselves or popping pills. Few guns. Same suicide rate. No differences.

Need other countries for comparison?

Cuba. Very restrictive gun laws. Same suicide rate as ours.
China. Very restrictive gun laws. Same suicide rate as ours.
Germany. Way more restrictive gun laws. Same suicide rate as ours.

I could list about 10 more, but I think you get the point. The bottom line is that we have ample proof that this claim is bogus.

I know what you are thinking. But if just a few of the ones that normally put a gun to their heads, suddenly change their minds and choose life, wouldn't that be worth it?

Let me ask you a couple of other questions. Did you know that in the US, 70,000 people each year shoot a bad guy that tried to harm them? Would you take away 70,000 people's right to keep on breathing, for just a few that wanted to end it all anyway?

How about this? 10,000 people each year hang themselves. Would you be willing to make buying rope illegal? After all, a lot of people use it each year to hang themselves. 

OF COURSE NOT! That would be silly. And so is the claim that making guns vanish would change the suicide rate. 

To see the next myth destroyed click here. 

Good guys with guns, never stop bad guys with guns

Welcome to our series on debunking the most popular gun myths. In it, we aim to totally destroy all of the myths that you are most familiar with. You will be able to use these to cram the truth down a gun grabber's throat.

Because sometimes the truth hurts, we don't care if they choke on it.

#4 - Good guys with guns, never stop bad guys with guns.

Totally 100% wrong. This claim was put out on the internet with zero data to back it up. I have even heard politicians repeat it is. But it's a bold faced lie. In fact, it probably happens millions of times each year.

How do I know that? Well the FBI reports that on average, 70,000 people shoot a bad guy each year. That bad guy ends up with a bullet in him thanks to the good guy. And these are regular people. Not cops. The bad guy either went to jail, or ended up dead due to his injuries. 70,000 times each year.

BUT WAIT! That number starts getting much bigger when we add in the number of times the good guy didn't actually shoot the bad guy. Or sometimes you just show the bad guy the gun, and he runs away. Sometimes the cops are never called when that happens. That has happened to me twice. I had guys with knives threaten me and demand my money. I showed them my gun. They ran away. I never called the cops.

NOW how big is that number?

The National Crime Victimization Survey says 108,000. Many don't like this number because it does not actually ask victims about defensive use of guns. That number is "derived" from the rest of their answers.

The Kleck Survey asks specifically, "Have you ever defended yourself using a firearm?" That number gives us 4,500,000. - 4.5 MILLION!

And yet another survey just counts news stories and headlines each year. That number is 2,500,000. - 2.5 MILLION!

THE TRUTH: No matter what number you decide to go with, way - WAY - WAAAAAYYY more people defend themselves with a gun, than are ever harmed by a gun.

To see the next myth destroyed click here. 

More Guns = More Crime

Welcome to our series on debunking the most popular gun myths. In it, we aim to totally destroy all of the myths that you are most familiar with. You will be able to use these to cram the truth down a gun grabber's throat.

And because sometimes the truth hurts, we don't care if they choke on it.

#3 - More guns = more crime. Simple math.

Totally 100% wrong. Even though we have 310 million guns for 310 million people, violent crime involving a gun is incredibly low. How low? Like really low. Like mind blowing low. Like when I tell you how often a gun is involved in a violent crime, you are not going to believe me and demand proof. So guess what, I am going to give it to you. I am going to give it to you real good.

Ripped right from the pages of the Bureau of Justice Statistics - a US Government entity that gathers crime data - I present to you the truth about guns and violent crime.

ONLY 8 PERCENT OF ALL VIOLENT CRIME INVOLVE A GUN!

Get the freak out of here! You mean 80% right? Nope. A single digit number. 8. 8 freaking percent. Not exactly what you have been lead to believe, is it?

That means 92 percent of all violent crime involve anything else other than a gun. In fact 78% of the time, a violent crime is committed with body parts. Meaning a fist, or foot.

I got it! Maybe we should take away everybody's feet. That will surely change the crime rate.

But wait, that's not all! - What does the government show historically about guns and violent crime? Surely this is just a weird fluke, right? Wrong! Really wrong. This report show that in 1992 when they started tracking this data, only 13% of all violent crime involved a firearm. Since 1992 it has gone down. And it has gone down every year to the current level of 8%.

WAIT! Are you telling me that as more and more people buy guns, violent crime involving a gun is moving in the opposite direction?!?!?

Yep. The truth is far less scary than what you were led to believe, wasn't it? Can't figure out why. Politicians and the news media never blow anything out of proportion to further an agenda. Never...

To see the next myth destroyed click here. 

We need more gun laws!

Welcome to our series on debunking the most popular gun myths. In it, we aim to totally destroy all of the myths that you are most familiar with. You will be able to use these to cram the truth down a gun grabber's throat.

#2 - Guns are dangerous! So, like it totally makes sense to pass laws to make them safer.

I agree. We will always need laws to govern things that can potentially be used irresponsibly. To show you how much I support your idea, let me give you one example of how we use common sense and laws to regulate irresponsible behavior.

Alcohol. 

By itself, and used responsibly, millions of people enjoy alcohol every day. But because a few people occasionally act irresponsibly, we have all kind of laws to regulate it. In fact, we have over 2,000 laws on the books to regulate alcohol. We have laws that tell you when you can drink it, when you can buy it, where you can consume it, and even where and when you can be intoxicated by it. For instance you can't drink in a park. You can't be drunk and drive. We don't allow public intoxication.

And that's just smart!

By the same token, we have over 2,000 laws on the books that regulate firearms, and the people that use them.  We have laws that regulate ammunition, the guns they go in, and modifications to those firearms. There are laws to make them safe. There are laws that keep proven irresponsible people from owning them. It's why we have background checks. We even have laws specifically to punish irresponsible people that use them.

Exactly like we do with alcohol.

Present another law that makes sense, will make a difference, and does not take away our Constitutional right to own them, and law abiding gun owners everywhere will support it. We always Do. Promise.

By the way, the Centers For Disease Control report that there are over 75,000 alcohol related deaths each year. Did you know that? That's a whole lot! I will bet that you didn't know that is way more than twice as many gun related deaths. Accidents, and all crime included! Over twice as much!!! Maybe we should ban alcohol....

Click here to see the next myth destroyed.

Big, Black, Scary Assault Rifles

These big black guns are so scary!

Welcome to our series on debunking the most popular gun myths. In it, we aim to totally destroy all of the myths that you are most familiar with. You will be able to use these to cram the truth down a gun grabber's throat.

And because sometimes the truth hurts, we don't care if they choke on it.

#1 - OMG!!! Those scary black assault rifles kill, like, so many people every year. We should, like, totally ban those.

Actually, the number of murders committed with a rifle is incredibly low. Especially considering that we have a population of 310 million people. How low? So low that way more murders are committed with knives than with rifles. How many more? According to the FBI, 400%-600% more. Note that I didn't specify "assault rifles". I said rifles. That's because the FBI groups all forms of rifles together in their statistics.

That's right! When you take all murders committed with bolt action hunting rifles, muzzle loading rifles, semi automatic hunting rifles, carbines, lever action rifles, revolving rifles, and of course the "Evil Black Assault Rifle", and you add them all up, they are still way-way-waaaay less than the murders committed by knives. Again - 400% to 600% on average each year.

Take a look at the screen capture below. It comes straight from the FBI's own database. As you can see, even though we have tens of millions of rifles in the hands of the public, only 285 murders were committed in 2013 using a rifle. Add that to the fact that we have a population of 310 million people, and the truth is not scary at all.

In fact, we are talking about an itty bitty teeny tiny fraction of 1% of all violent crime - including murder -  involve a rifle of some kind. Any kind. Even big scary black assault rifles.

To see the next myth destroyed click here.